Analysis of Victoria 8/Genesis 8 Female

It’s June, of an odd number year, and right on time, DAZ3D released the new figure line, Genesis 8, with its flagship model, Victoria 8.

Yes, DAZ3D skipped Genesis 4. Their reasons are pretty sound. First, Gen4 is the shorthand for Generation 4, or Victoria 4 and Michael 4. This avoids confusion. Second, it ties in with Victoria 8, avoiding further confusion.

When Victoria 7 appeared in June, 2015, my response was, “Oh, hell, no!” No, that’s being kind. I was vulgar, hostile, and antagonistic.  My resolve lasted fourteen months. Now, I work exclusively with Victoria 7. This time, I decided to buy Victoria 8 on the first day and put her through a series of tests before I said yay or nay.

I said that when Victoria 8 appeared, for me to switch from Victoria 7, V8 was going to have to really impress me. She was going to have to step off the computer screen, perform one heck of a lap dance, build me a stiff Manhattan, and take care of cleaning the place so I don’t have to. Has all that happened this week? Let’s find out.

With Victoria 8/Genesis 8, DAZ3D makes the following claims:

  • The most backward compatibility ever, through included clones for Genesis, Genesis 2, & Genesis 3
  • Includes clones for Male and Female figures for better use of content across sexes
  • New eyes, toes, fingers, lashes, and more
  • More realistic bending and articulation across the figure
  • Enhanced PowerPose support, including an all-new expression interface
  • Major muscle groups now flex automatically as the figure moves and poses
  • Dramatically more realistic skin through an all-new Iray Uber Shader

I’m going to look at the first, fourth, sixth, and seventh in depth. The third, new eyes, toes, fingers, etc., is actually the only major difference between Victoria 8 and Victoria 7 (I’ll get to that in a minute). The eyelashes are now geografted props instead of being part of the mesh. Why, may I ask? As for PowerPose, that only benefits the animator, not the still artist. So, in both cases, DAZ3D is pandering to the game developer. They don’t benefit me, so I could not care less.

As for the dramatically more realistic skin, that is definitely true! However, it’s part of DAZ Studio 4.9.4.177. It comes with an enhanced Iray Ubershader. I’ve used it already on my Victoria 7s and tested it on a V6 and V4. So, to claim it’s a feature of Victoria 8/Genesis 8 is disingenuous.

Victoria 6, Victoria 7, and Victoria 8, Side-by-Side

I loved Victoria 6! The only reason I switched to Victoria 7 was the improved sculptability of the figure, and that was made possible by Xenic101’s Muscular HD Morphs, and Zev0’s Vascularity HD, Shape Shift 3, and Breast Control 3 systems. Otherwise, she was a primitive brick. Here the three generations are, side-by-side:

V8A2

V6 on the left, V7 in the center, V8 on the right. This is something that DAZ3D didn’t tell us. V8 is taller. I put Measure Metrics on V6 and V7, so I know for a fact that they are both 5’11”. So, V8 must be 6’2″. Yet, they advertise her as 5’10”. Someone can’t read a measuring tape.

The Meshes

Here is the mesh for Victoria 6:

MeshV6

This is what I loved about Victoria 6. Notice the complex intersections in the brows, the mouth, the shoulders, the upper chest/collarbone, and tops of the breasts. These mimic the natural topology of the human body, and permit an astonishing array of character morphs that parallel realistic people.

Compare to Victoria 7:

MeshV7

Simplified. Far too simplified for my tastes. This is pandering to game developers. They don’t care about realism. They need maximum movement with minimal resource clogging. It’s funny, however. Victoria 6 still loads and renders faster than the more primitive Victoria 7. That Zev0 can develop morphing systems for this, and Fred Winkler can get astonishingly realistic people out of this are testaments to their talents and genius. If not for those two content creators, I’d still be working with V6.

Now, Victoria 8:

MeshV8

DAZ3D calls her the most advanced Victoria yet. Really? V8 is a copy of V7. In fact, based on the mesh, she doesn’t deserve the name Victoria 8, but rather should be called Victoria 7.2.

The Faces

Faces

Again, V6 left, V7 center, V8 right.

Again, V6 has the most pleasing and morphable face. I thought V7’s face was too hard and her mouth just plain ugly. I should have withheld judgment for Victoria 8. She looks too masculine. It’s politically correct these days to not be able to tell men from women, but it’s biologically incorrect. Over on the DAZ forums, V8’s supporters deride those of us who don’t like V8’s masculine face by saying, “I guess they’ve never seen a real woman.” Personally, I think that’s an affront to women. My wife certainly doesn’t look like me! My other complaints are V8’s face is long, where V6 and V7 have heart shaped faces. And, again, V8 has a mouth big enough to fit a tankard.

Flexion of Muscles

DAZ3D claims that Victoria 8’s muscles flex as she moves. Let’s see.

V82D

Well, yes. To a degree. Some. To get that claimed level of flexion, the figure’s arms and legs need to be nearly doubled over onto themselves. That’s fine for yoga poses, but not most everyday or action poses.

Compare to Victoria 7, with Muscular HD in action:

V82E

A superior level of muscular flexion and definition is possible with Victoria 7, with systems already in place. Systems that do not exist for Genesis 8, and may not if Xenic doesn’t want to upgrade yet again.

Backwards Compatibility

DAZ3D claims that Victoria 8/Genesis 8 is their most backwards compatible figure yet. They claim that she will wear all clothes for Genesis, Genesis 2, and Genesis 3, as well as accepting their poses. Is this true? The answer is a qualified no.

Here’s Reason Number One, the zero pose.

This is Victoria 7’s zero pose, one used by V4, V5, and V6 as well.

Zero7

Now, Victoria 8’s zero pose:

Zero8

DAZ3D moved from the classic T pose to an A pose. The A pose is preferred by game developers. Now, I understand the game development community is good business, but DAZ has a sister company called Morph 3D that is specifically geared for that community. So, why muck with us still artists like this?

The A pose throws all legacy poses into a fit. Forget using them! Unless … There is hope. Sickleyield, perhaps one of the best content creators in the business, designed a T pose for Victoria 8, as well as a tutorial for adapting legacy clothes to fit her. It works for poses, too. You can find it in Sickleyield’s Journal on DeviantArt. Highly recommended if you plan to use V8. But we shouldn’t have to resort to that kind of convoluted process.

Now, here’s the second reason V8 isn’t as backwards compatible as DAZ3D claims.

This is the list of all figures supported by Victoria 7/Genesis 3 Auto-Fit:

AutoFit3

Now, for Victoria 8/Genesis 8:

AutoFit2

Do you see who is missing? DAZ3D wants Victoria 4 and Michael 4 to just go away.

Some claim that Victoria 4 clothes were never supported by Genesis. Uh, her name is up there for Victoria 7. As for them fitting, take a look at this:

V7 Iryndelle

Iryndelle here wears AeonSoul’s Classic Fantasy for Victoria 4. Iryndelle is a Victoria 7. For the first two years of her existence, she was a Victoria 6, and wore the same outfit. In fact, it fits V7 better than it fit V4, and it was designed for V4.

How does it fit V8?

AutoFit

YIKES! I stopped right here. This is with Sickleyield’s T pose applied to V8. Auto-Fit tried to place the arm jewels in the original pose. So, V8 will not take V4 clothes.

UNLESS … I can’t remember his name to give him credit, but someone on DeviantArt developed a workaround. He applied V4 clothes to V7. Then, he transferred them to V8. They fit like tailored gloves. So, there is that option.

Now, how do Genesis clothes fit Genesis 8. Well, let’s take a look at Auto-Fit.

This is the Auto-Fit pane for Victoria 7, and it’s the same for Victoria 6:

AutoFit4

Now, the Auto-Fit pane for Victoria 8/Genesis 8:

AutoFit5

Again, see what’s missing? Footwear, capes, gloves, pants, and shirts all qualify as none. For V6 and V7, if we did not specify the type of garment, the adjustment and effects morphs did not convey to the applied figure. They do for V8, regardless, but there are limitations.

Here is what the Auto-Fit looks like in action:

AutoFit8

This is Out of Touch’s Button Up 2 for G3F on a V7. Now, below, is the same on V8.

AutoFit9

It looks kinda wrong. Just a touch, like Vicki stole it out of her little sister’s dresser. The biggest problem is the effects morphs do not perform as well as they should. The shirt opens, but the buttons don’t move with it, and it doesn’t open as far as it should.

Now, I haven’t tested to see if Genesis 8 finally avoids the nasty tearing of the mesh on long skirts from previous generations, or avoids the “crash into the cleavage” that happens with tops that bridge the breasts.

Oh. Once again, you can forget about giving V8 any high heeled shoes from previous generations to Victoria 8. It ain’t happening! Sickleyield gets it to work, but I don’t think it’s worth the hassle.

How about the reverse? For a whole fourteen months, I bought V7 clothes to go on my V6 characters. They fit quite well. This is AerySoul’s Aery Mage for V7 on Victoria 6:

AutoFit7

Now, Throne Defender for V8 on V7:

AutoFit6

Well, she’s trying to wear them. It’s that A pose that’s throwing Auto-Fit off.

So, backwards compatibility of Victoria 8/Genesis 8 exists in theory. In practice, is it far less flexible and thorough than that of Victoria 7/Genesis 3.

How about that Male/Female clones so we can transfer clothing across sexes? Take a look at this:

AuraIraySM

Aura wears Pirate for G2M boots. Not only are they designed for Michael (a male), but they’re from a previous generation. Victoria 7/Genesis 3 already does across sex clothing transfer, at least, as far as I need it to go. So, this new feature of Victoria 8/Genesis 8 doesn’t benefit or interest me.

Character Transfer

This is the big one for me, the deal maker or breaker. I have custom made recurring characters, the primary ones being Aura Lockhaven and the Sarethian Seven. According to DAZ3D, characters can transfer from one generation of Genesis to Genesis 8 without difficulty.

So, I tried transferring Aura Lockhaven from V7 to V8. She has been a V4 and a V6 in the past. To transfer her from V4 to V6, I rebuilt her slider-by-slider. For V7, I created a shaping preset of her V6 incarnation, and applied it to a raw Genesis 3 Female. Ninety percent of the sliders transferred without difficulty. The ones that did not no longer existed. The missing 10% was a simple matter of tweaking.

Victoria 8/Genesis 8 has the same exact morphing sliders as Victoria 7/Genesis 3, so the transfer should be 100 %. Was it?

V8E

NOT AT ALL!

Oh, I suppose Aura (on the left) could be standing with her 40 year old cousin. It’s that massive difference between the two base faces. Victoria 8’s face isn’t just long and masculine. It’s also older. Aura is twenty-two. She also doesn’t have a double chin. Her V8 mouth is too wide and her lips too thin. Here’s the profile:

V8F

From the nose up, the V8 version looks great. Below the nose, she looks horrid. Now, granted, Aura is a V7HD. The HD morphs don’t exist yet for Victoria 8, but they will probably appear within the next week. It’s pretty standard for them to be released within ten days of a major character launch. That could make a lot of difference.

I couldn’t test her body. Aura’s body is morphed using Shape Shift 3 and Breast Control 3 by Zev0. He will have to release Genesis 8 versions before I can test a below the neck character transfer of Aura from V7 to V8.

Skin Transfer

DAZ says that V7 skins will fit V8. Do they?

V8G

Well, yes. I’ll give credit where credit is due. They fit perfectly. However, now the V8 Aura looks even worse. Aura’s skins are G3F, designed for G3F, enhanced in Skin Builder 3 for G3F, and worn by G3F. Just because it fits V8 doesn’t mean it works. Again, it’s that totally different base face shape.

Conclusion

As of today, I can’t use Victoria 8/Genesis 8. I have no need. There really isn’t any difference is meshes, so why bother? The major differences are things I can’t use (separate eyelashes) and things I won’t (that face!). V8 offers too much of what I don’t need, and not nearly enough of what I do need.

For me to use Victoria 8/Genesis 8, Xenic101 and Zev0 will have to release new Genesis 8 versions of their morphing systems. Morphing systems to turn this androgynous supermodel into a real woman are underway. Powerage has released Breast Factory 8 for Genesis 8. I use the G3F edition on my standard models to give them a different look. Fred Winkler is already performing his magic. His V7HD characters were some of the reasons I switched from V6 to V7. He got the granite slab of the Genesis 3 mesh to look like a real woman. He’s doing it again for Victoria 8 with his new character Elizabeth. She has a feminine face, and a natural height.

With any luck, perhaps Zev0, or someone, will release a Face Shift 8 that will take care of that ungodly mouth and horsey face on V8.

That does not in any way mean that I can ever use V4, V6, or V7 clothing on a V8. Not without a lot of effort and too much work; effort and work that I should not have to do. Perhaps, a Genesis 8 version of Wear Them All will take care of those issues.

Until then, I’m sticking with Victoria 7. If I have to make my own Manhattan and vacuum my own carpet, I’ll do it with a trusted friend.

 

 

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